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» Ремонт накопителей WD (Western Digital). Часть III

Автор: Genue
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:01
перевожу с английского на русский, чтобы стало понятнее:

Цитата:
PCB only, без HSA

только плат, без гермоблока
Это понятно ?!?
Какие

Цитата:
Tink200
Цитата:
изменения напряжений в цепи комутатора ..)))

на той картинке ?

PS: Можно не отвечать, в общем то.
Автор: JETWAY
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:13
Если на самсунг M8 на наклейке присутствует надпись Seagate-это ещё не говорит о том,что это Seagate

P.S:Если я наклеил на HDD Hitachi наклейку от WD и поменял название модели в паспорте на WD,он что стал WD от этого?

Также было и с Maxtor,когда их Seagate купили.На наклейке было Maxtor,а сам хард чистокровный Seagate.
Автор: Tink200
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:18
Genue
смотря кто как использует ПО. и как на него смотрит в процессе использования.
JETWAY
я не про наклейку говорю. а про как минимум плату электроники и головы.
=================================
п.с .. можна не отписывать. у каждого сваои методы и подходы
Автор: JETWAY
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:23
И что же вы нашли интересно сигейтовского в электронике M8 ?
PCB там мало чем отличается от Samsung M7 и более старых семейств.Головы тоже.
Вы где нибудь видели на Seagate использование процессора Marvel ?
Автор: Tink200
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:26
JETWAY
глянь для удивления М8 и М8Е .. выпущеные после 01\10\2012
Автор: Genue
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:52
Tink200

Цитата:
смотря кто как использует ПО. и как на него смотрит в процессе использования.


То есть, Вы настаиваете на том, что с помощью софта для вот такого ПАК , предназначенного для тестирования плат, Вы можете поднимать напряжения на коммутаторе .. и паралельно считывать дату с дисков ?
Что за бред ! Не смешно даже.
Автор: Tink200
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 14:58
Genue
а вы уверенны что это именно от него софт?)) а не от Test pad.min ? )))
Автор: AV82
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 15:23
Asidor


Цитата:
Нет в ПЗУ этого.

Не верю. Вы дизассемблировали код?


Цитата:
В самом скрипте полного скана присутствуют стрессовые тесты

Наименования тестов и доказательства, что они "стрессовые"?


Цитата:
Учи физику, возможно удасться понять процессы происходящие с материалом голов.

Пару строк о вашем образовании, позволяющем говорить со мной в таком тоне. Или вы хотите сказать, что вникли в процессы происходящие с материалом голов жесткого диска фирмы WD по материалам школьного курса физики?
Скажите, а из какого материала сделаны эти головы? Их вес? Формула сплава? Размеры магниторезистивного элемента? Высота полета над поверхностью? Вы просто ОБЯЗАНЫ ответить на эти вопросы, если сами разобрались в этих процессах и взяли на себя смелость обвинить собеседника в несостоятельности. Ясное дело, что вы не знаете ответов, но хотя бы посмейтесь над собой и своим выпендрежем.


Цитата:
Не сама величина тока опасна (он там далеко не в амперах) а опасна температура, которая приводит к изменению физических свойств материала (а температура есно зависит от силы тока - школьный курс физики).

В смысле вы хотите сказать, что во время тестов магнитная головка нагревает сама себя, причем до опасных температур? Вы наверное спутали ее с предусилителем, мотором и контроллером. А еще вернее то, что вы не учли факт трения/соприкосновения головки с воздухом в целом и воздушной подушкой в частности. Эти - да, таки нагревают все вокруг себя. А вот магнитная головка сама по себе во время работы не греется. Десятые доли вольт напряжения, которые на нее подаются по время записи и вырабатываются с нее во время чтения не способны нагреть ее до сколь-нибудь серьезных температур. Она быстрее и качественнее нагреется от уже перечисленных мною факторов, нежели сама по себе, какими бы "стрессовыми" не были предложенные вами гипотетические тесты.

И слову, о физических свойствах - материалы для жестких дисков это ноу-хау предназначенное для работы в высокопрецизионных механизмах. Они номинально рассчитаны на разброс температур, присутствующих внутри гермоблока. Они НЕ изменяют своих физических свойств в пределах температурного диапазона на который рассчитаны, либо изменяют в небольших пределах регламентированных в микропрограмме; они не изнашиваются (ну разве что мотор), они не теряют твердость, упругость, качество. Ваши утверждения о изменяющихся физических свойствах путем воздействия температуры и пресловутых "токов" через N-ное количество запусков каких либо существующих и несуществующих тестов - голословны. То что у вас какие-то винты портятся через пару недель мне абсолютно безразлично. У меня есть собственная статистика. Скажем, на предприятии, где я работаю, в отдаленных участках все еще находятся в эксплуатации штук 30 Compaq DeskPro EN и столько же Asus Terminator, которые работают с 2000-2001 года, с имеющимися на борту 15 и 20 ГБ винтами без каких либо признаков дефектов. В самих корпусах этих бедняг жарко как в аду. По вашей теории жесткие диски при такой длительной эскплуатации как минимум должны равнятся по "изношенности" вашим стресс тестам запущенным пару сотен раз - и без разницы, что объем маленький - речь идет о жизни и смерти головок. Но они работают. Как минимум 12 лет, по 8 часов в сутки. Намек ясен? Прекратите проповедовать конец света через стресс-тесты. Вы ничего в этом не понимаете.
Но я буду настолько милосердным что предложу вам вариант от которого ваши питомцы дохнут на ровном месте - физическое повреждение голов вызванное ударом о поверхность. Эти - да, могут сдохнуть во время арко, селфсканов, и любых других тестов, когда на головку будет понемногу собираться пыль от царапин, да и сама она начнет убиваться сталкиваясь с царапинами. Надеюсь теперь вы все поняли, и не будете:

Цитата:
пороть ересь и линейкой мерить воздушное пространство между границей реальности и чертой - границей вожделенного размера.



Цитата:
Набирайся опыта в ремонте.

Так прямо идти и набираться? Или может снова поприкалываться?
Назовите ваш стаж в ремонте и наименование вашей сервисной конторы. Есть сайт? Рекомендации от партнеров? Сертификаты от производителей жестких дисков? Только не надо ля-ля о том, что вы самородок и вам не нужны никакие конторы, рекомендации и сертификаты, что вы сам себе хозяин и т.д. Сначала сами чего нибудь добейтесь, а уж потом советуйте другим набираться опыта. Что-то я до сих пор не увидел в ваших постах ни одного конструктивного предложения, помимо срача вокруг АРКО, где вы - бесспорно - непревзойденный АС. Назовите форумы где вас знают и уважают. Можно даже англоязычные. Есть такие?
Чувствуете, что ваш выпендреж до добра не доведет?


Цитата:
Глупая отписка про доноров - слив глупости и полное отсутствие минимальных знаний.

Может вам завидно, что у меня есть возможность ставить эксперименты на дорогом оборудовании и иметь с этого как доход так и бесценный опыт? Так и скажите. Нужно что-то делать и пробовать, чтобы получать результаты. А не ждать, пока вам кто-то на форуме подкинет милостыню, чтобы вы на другом форуме кричали, что это вы сами до этого докопались. Чем же отписка про доноров глупа? Тем что ее написали не вы? Так вы же по определению один из тех, кто первый ею воспользуется, если будет нужно. А вообще, на мой взгляд, слив глупости - это трындеть на пустой желудок, нихрена не делать и обзывать всех дураками. Только не говорите, что вы сытый и довольный спец. Вы не сытый, не довольный и уж тем более не спец. Что же касается минимальных знаний, то вы слишком некомпетентны, чтобы хотя бы приблизительно судить о чужих знаниях.


Цитата:
Не вникай, написана полная чушь.


Это к предисловию о серворайтере? Скажите вы хотя бы это слово слышали, до того как я его написал? Опишите как он работет, чего делает, что умеет и что не умеет. Вы же не знаете.

Мое мнение: у вас патология. Комплекс мнимого превосходтсва необъятных размеров. Вы абсолютно не отдаете в себе отчет в том, что говорите, лишь бы не признать своих ошибок и попутно оскорбить собеседника. И еще кое-что. Если к вам обращаются на "вы", это не значит, что вас уважают. Возможно ваш собеседник просто воспитанный человек.

Вы читали про академика Петрика? Почитайте, для вас это будет очень поучительно.



Автор: SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Дата сообщения: 06.06.2013 18:18
Минута юмора
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmHBLqYzimE

308011
Если можно внесу предложение об раздельном логе сохраняемом в папку с накопителем, а не в корневом каталоге, и не в формате ворда, хватит и обычного тхт.

рубил голову у Starling (PATA) модули не Роял, похоже на Карвиар по заголовку. При глобальном поиске нашло около 29 тысяч модулей, прикол от производителя. Регионов у данного семейства нет по ходу.

Накопитель WDC WD1600JB-00REA0 Disk size 312581808
Транслятор успешно очищен
RELO-List успешно очищен
Головка номер 0 успешно отключена
Накопитель WD1200 Disk size 241254720
Пересчет транслятора успешно запущен
Тест D2/01 начат: 06.06.2013 17:40:34:

Пересчёт плавно перетёк в состояние 05 00
до этого пинал селфскан он показал дохлую голову 0 (переполнение по количеству дефектов), в каких модулях сохраняются логи селфа по головам .....для разбора.
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 10:06
SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Писать 2 копии не проблема
А чем ворд не угодил?
Автор: SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 10:37

Цитата:
А чем ворд не угодил?

привычка просто в блокноте смотреть
а так генерируется лишние страницы в начале типа
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Если будет 2 копии то если можно 2 копию в папке с накопителем которая генерируется по паспорту сохранять копию в тхт.....

В папке с головами не нарушен ли порядок голов логика/физика
я так понимаю они должны быть на оборот надписи.
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 10:51
SRUTSSSSSSSS80


Цитата:
В папке с головами не нарушен ли порядок голов логика/физика

О чем речь непонятно
Автор: SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 10:56

Цитата:
О чем речь непонятно

В надписях
карта логических головок
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
+ + + +

карта физических головок
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
+ + + +
логика по идее должна следовать не прерывно 0,1,2,3
а физика где установлена голова, хотя может на Старлинге по другому в модуле прописано?
Автор: ev2k
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 11:00
Подсажите кто знает как "в синих скорпионах" увеличить время автопарковки с 4 секунд ну хотя бы на 14 (wdidle3 работать не будет). Или это не возможно, а можно только выключить APM
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 11:08
SRUTSSSSSSSS80

Цитата:
В надписях

По реакции кроликов
Верхняя - карта используемых логических
Нижняя - карта присутствующих физических
На некоторых то же замечал, что логические не непрерывно в карте
Почему - не знаю, но работает все корректно
Автор: SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 11:13
308011
понял, спасибо, хотя интересно.
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 11:55
Раз уж речь про папки зашла...
Сейчас автоматом создается папка
Семейство\Модель\Серийный
Хочу добавить версию ПЗУ
Не могу определиться как удобнее будет
Семейство\ПЗУ\Модель\Серийный
или
Семейство\Модель\ПЗУ\Серийный
Автор: south_man
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 12:13
308011
может Семейство\Модель.ПЗУ\Серийный
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 12:19
south_man

Цитата:
Модель.ПЗУ

Смысл в том что бы как можно больше сгруппировать их, ваш вариант сделает все наоборот
Я не знаю что чаще встречается, разные модели с одной версией ПЗУ, или разные версии ПЗУ у одинаковой модели
Автор: JETWAY
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 13:16

Цитата:
Я не знаю что чаще встречается, разные модели с одной версией ПЗУ, или разные версии ПЗУ у одинаковой модели

Разные версии пзу у одинаковой модели
например WD1600AAJS(Pinklite)

WDC WD1600AABS-00L8A0-01-03E01-(000100BJ)-WD-WCAV30200651
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01.03E01-(000500E2)WD-WCAV31641988
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000100C7)-WD-WMAV30491343
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000100CS)-WD-WMAV31914474
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000300E4)-WD-WMAV34286455
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000500E0)-WD-WCAV31570504
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000500E6)-WD-WMAV35891207
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-01-03E01-(000500E7)-WD-WMAV37115722
WDC WD1600AAJS-00L7A0-05-04E05-(000500F9)-WD-WMAV2N070496
WDC WD1600AAJS-00M0A0-01-03E01-(000300E2)-WD-WMAV23977396
WDC WD1600AAJS-08L7A0-02-03E02-(000300E4)-WD-WMAV35045074
WDC WD1600AAJS-08L7A0-03-03E03-(000500F9_ВНЕШНЯЯ)-WD-WCAV37290938
WDC WD1600AAJS-22L7A0-01-03E01-(000500F0)-WD-WMAV2H567828
WDC WD1600AAJS-22L7A0-01-03E01-(000500FA)-WD-WCAV35107292
WDC WD1600AAJS-22L7A0-01-03E01-(000500FF)-WD-WMAV2AV80966
WDC WD1600AAJS-22L7A0-05-04E05-(000500FM)-WD-WMAV3H409863

Как видите модели одинаковые,а версия ПЗУ (в скобках) у всех разная.И это далеко не все версии ПЗУ ,которые существуют для этой модели.

Точно также и у других моделей и семейств множество различных версий ПЗУ
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 07.06.2013 13:21
JETWAY
Ага, спс, тогда Семейство\Модель\ПЗУ\Серийный будет
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 09:52
ALL

Есть ли кого-либо из присутствующих, винты с дефектами в СА, на которых не получается скрыть их тестом DF?
Нужны добровольцы для тестирования програмного поиска и скрытия дефектов в СА
Автор: SRUTSSSSSSSS80
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 10:16
308011
сканирование по физике SA без DF?
у меня на Старлинг вообще DF не пускает.... вычистили веник до того как он ко мне попал, счас ручками листы формирую.
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 10:20
SRUTSSSSSSSS80

Цитата:
сканирование по физике SA без DF?  

Именно
Правда, для ROYL винтов
Старлинг вроде еще не ROYL же?
Автор: JETWAY
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 10:51

Цитата:
Старлинг вроде еще не ROYL же?

Starling-это обычный Marvel,не Royl

Добавлено:

Цитата:
вычистили веник до того как он ко мне попал, счас ручками листы формирую.

какие листы P-List ?
Автор: off2011
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 10:59

Цитата:
Нужны добровольцы для тестирования програмного поиска и скрытия дефектов в СА

я доброволец
Автор: cenix_str
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 13:40
Подскажите пожалуйста, такой вопрос:
есть Pinnacle_RE (Royl)
Предистория такова:
ко мне попал целый, не открывался, плата родная, при подаче питания никакой реакции, в регистрах все горит, пзу соответственно не читается. Плата 2060-701537-004 Rev.A. Пзу внешнего нет, процессор бга, все напряжения в норме.
Взял плату от обычного Pinnacle (2060-701537-003 Rev.A), отличается только отсутствием в правом верхнем углу дополнительных датчиков вибрации с обвязкой.
Вычитал с этой платой модули 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 108, 109
107 не было на диске и в дире тоже не прописан.
Восстановил вручную флеш из 109 и залил в вдр остальные с изменением заголовка, после рестарта дир не читался, я сохранил еще раз с него модули, треки, регионы.
35 модуль пустой, дефектов в служебке нет.

А проблема собственно состоит в том, что при записи DIR через меню или через модули, он ложится на 0 ABA как я понял, и затирает собой 35 и 1000 модули, которые находятся на этом месте в DIR, а он должен быть на 104032, и в принципе он там есть физически.

До перезаписи винт стартует и выходит в готовность быстро, т.к. не может прочитать дир видимо.
После перезаписи стартует, почти рекалибруется, и потом долго пытается что-то прочитать, и висит в busy.

Сравнивал служебки с Pinnacle и Pinnacle_lite, у них dir начинается с 0 ABA, служебки от WD2502ABYS нашел только pcr от pc3000, открыть к сожалению нечем чтобы сравнить. Насколько я понимаю, в пзу где-то есть координаты, по которым ищется дир, но я пока не нашел.

Пробовал восстанавливать пзу из файлов автоматом в WDR_beta и WDR с аналогичным результатом.

Критична ли плата?
На форуме ранее похожую проблему не видел.
Выложил ресурсы сюда, если что http://rghost.ru/private/46600822/555544e72e08a9f0b67c5acd621c653d
Автор: suslix
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 14:01
308011

Цитата:
Есть ли кого-либо из присутствующих, винты с дефектами в СА,

есть. Denali (Royl) - вылет дф с ошибкой.
Автор: 308011
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 14:24
cenix_str
suslix
Проверьте почту
Автор: igor_me
Дата сообщения: 08.06.2013 14:29
cenix_str

Цитата:
А проблема собственно состоит в том, что при записи DIR через меню или через модули, он ложится на 0 ABA как я понял, и затирает собой 35 и 1000 модули, которые находятся на этом месте в DIR, а он должен быть на 104032, и в принципе он там есть физически.

Эта фраза противоречит сама себе, однако. Это мне несколько напомнает ситуацию с моим первым WD5000AADS (которая обсуждалась в начале первой части, почитайте). Я менял адрес Dir, прописал на самый конец служебки после всех модулей и у меня заработало.

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